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Sun, 2009-12-06 02:23
Hello there,
Actually I think if you really want to catch the TD feeling first you should change the colour palets for the Nod colour to have metallic units and red buildings just like in the original TD. Second: the ability of the chinook that it can move units on the map gives too much tactical advantage for Nod. The Nod sam sites have heat follower rockets? If an orca flees from a sam site, the rocket chases it just round the map, quite annoying. You should make the walls buildable on a non-isometric way. I don't know if that is actually possible with the benefits of the Tiberian Sun engine, but if you use half map units it could be possible in mind. You should make the Nuclear strike less powerful if it is possible to use it repeatably.
This is for the main gameplay. You just shouldn't make an appearance for RA1 units on the TD sides, it will ruin the balance, trust me. BUT! Making an appearance for the RA1 sides along with the TD sides would make a whole new experience, this is what you should do. It would be awesome. Then you should just upgrade the TD sides to be so rich as the RA1 ones:
GDI:
- Give them airfield along with the a-10 bomber (if I remember back good)
- Give them them tech center for the balance with the RA1 sides
- Give them naval yard with the GDI gunboat (should shoot to air as well), hovercraft and cruiser
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable paratroopers and air strikes
- Give them the mine layer
- give them the medic
Nod:
- Remove the Rocket Launcher from their arsenal leaving it only to GDI
- Give them them tech center for the balance with the RA1 sides
- Give them sub pen with the submarine, hovercraft and missile sub
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable parabombs
- Give them the mine layer
- Give them APC
- Give them radar jammer with a wide range
- Give them the Chemical Warrior with a greater price and damage to infantry than the flamethrower
- Give them the thief
and for the RA1 ones:
Allies:
- Remove the camo pillbox from their arsenal
- Remove the gun turret from their arsenal
Soviets:
- Give them radar jammer with a wide range
- Give them the ability after building airfield to make repeatable parabombs
This would make this mod absolutely amazing.
Actually I think if you really want to catch the TD feeling first you should change the colour palets for the Nod colour to have metallic units and red buildings just like in the original TD. Second: the ability of the chinook that it can move units on the map gives too much tactical advantage for Nod. The Nod sam sites have heat follower rockets? If an orca flees from a sam site, the rocket chases it just round the map, quite annoying. You should make the walls buildable on a non-isometric way. I don't know if that is actually possible with the benefits of the Tiberian Sun engine, but if you use half map units it could be possible in mind. You should make the Nuclear strike less powerful if it is possible to use it repeatably.
This is for the main gameplay. You just shouldn't make an appearance for RA1 units on the TD sides, it will ruin the balance, trust me. BUT! Making an appearance for the RA1 sides along with the TD sides would make a whole new experience, this is what you should do. It would be awesome. Then you should just upgrade the TD sides to be so rich as the RA1 ones:
GDI:
- Give them airfield along with the a-10 bomber (if I remember back good)
- Give them them tech center for the balance with the RA1 sides
- Give them naval yard with the GDI gunboat (should shoot to air as well), hovercraft and cruiser
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable paratroopers and air strikes
- Give them the mine layer
- give them the medic
Nod:
- Remove the Rocket Launcher from their arsenal leaving it only to GDI
- Give them them tech center for the balance with the RA1 sides
- Give them sub pen with the submarine, hovercraft and missile sub
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable parabombs
- Give them the mine layer
- Give them APC
- Give them radar jammer with a wide range
- Give them the Chemical Warrior with a greater price and damage to infantry than the flamethrower
- Give them the thief
and for the RA1 ones:
Allies:
- Remove the camo pillbox from their arsenal
- Remove the gun turret from their arsenal
Soviets:
- Give them radar jammer with a wide range
- Give them the ability after building airfield to make repeatable parabombs
This would make this mod absolutely amazing.
Sun, 2009-12-06 09:57
#2
Sad to hear about the Nod colour, btw that TD doesnt contained that element in multiplay doesnt means that it would be bad.
The chinook problem is sad too. Can't you just use the Orca Transport scheme for a test? It is almost exactly like orca not mentioning the shp.
Nice to hear about that sam sites have a chance to be fixed. Looking forward to it!
This is another quite sad thing... Building walls in 8 direction would made a nice new element.
I do not agree about the Nuclear Strike thing. Yes I have used a lot of times and my opponents used it a lot of times against me. Problem is that it can easily destroy a War Factory and even a Construction Yard sometimes which is a too big tactical advantage for the Nod, it is 5000 minus to a player, which cannot be done with an ion cannon. What about using Nod another's missile and modding it instead? Or making the War Factory and Construction Yard stronger. It is an option as well to make it one time useable only (if possible) with a lot more damage and radius.
Adding RA1 into the game would be very interesting. Good to hear that you are thinking about it. I hope so that adding RA1 units doesn't ruin the balance, in fact this is only up to you. Anyway it's ruining the original TD feeling. But we'll see.
I saw the A-10 after I post the comment. And I tought that the gunboat will be only a single player element. Nice to hear it isn't.
The lack of air strikes and paratroopers is just bad, but unfortunately there is nothing to do with the game limitations. Just is you would have an experienced programmer who can edit the program language.
Making the mine layers with recovering HP isn't a real problem if you make them extremely weak. So after a tank bullet they blow up and you can still use it
Nice to hear about the appearance of the medic!
I think the parabombs should be put in-game for a test and we can check how players find it useful.
The impossibility of the Radar Jammer isn't a really big problem, it just would been a good plus for tactics.
I see that Chem Warriors exists. But are they stronger for example against infantry than the flamethrower? If they are not they have nothing to do, unfortunately.
The thiefs would be nice but I think we are not going to die if they are not in-game
The chinook problem is sad too. Can't you just use the Orca Transport scheme for a test? It is almost exactly like orca not mentioning the shp.
Nice to hear about that sam sites have a chance to be fixed. Looking forward to it!
This is another quite sad thing... Building walls in 8 direction would made a nice new element.
I do not agree about the Nuclear Strike thing. Yes I have used a lot of times and my opponents used it a lot of times against me. Problem is that it can easily destroy a War Factory and even a Construction Yard sometimes which is a too big tactical advantage for the Nod, it is 5000 minus to a player, which cannot be done with an ion cannon. What about using Nod another's missile and modding it instead? Or making the War Factory and Construction Yard stronger. It is an option as well to make it one time useable only (if possible) with a lot more damage and radius.
Adding RA1 into the game would be very interesting. Good to hear that you are thinking about it. I hope so that adding RA1 units doesn't ruin the balance, in fact this is only up to you. Anyway it's ruining the original TD feeling. But we'll see.
I saw the A-10 after I post the comment. And I tought that the gunboat will be only a single player element. Nice to hear it isn't.
The lack of air strikes and paratroopers is just bad, but unfortunately there is nothing to do with the game limitations. Just is you would have an experienced programmer who can edit the program language.
Making the mine layers with recovering HP isn't a real problem if you make them extremely weak. So after a tank bullet they blow up and you can still use it
Nice to hear about the appearance of the medic!
I think the parabombs should be put in-game for a test and we can check how players find it useful.
The impossibility of the Radar Jammer isn't a really big problem, it just would been a good plus for tactics.
I see that Chem Warriors exists. But are they stronger for example against infantry than the flamethrower? If they are not they have nothing to do, unfortunately.
The thiefs would be nice but I think we are not going to die if they are not in-game
Sun, 2009-12-06 15:37
#3
The chinook problem is sad too. Can't you just use the Orca Transport scheme for a test? It is almost exactly like orca not mentioning the shp.
That's of course the first thing I would have done, if it wasn't for the fact that player-controllable Orca Transports (or Dropships) don't work to begin with. Whenever you try to load a couple infantry onto them and then send it to land anywhere, it will fly to the spot where you sent it, but instead of landing there it'll fly right back to your base and continuously keep try to land on one of your buildings (which it can't, even if it's a helipad), which means that it won't land at all and you'll be listening to its continuous land/take-off sounds for the rest of the duration of the game. Giving it the carryall's ability fixes this, although it still won't let it function perfectly (infantry will always be dropped off one-by-one at its destination), but it's the best that can be done.
I do not agree about the Nuclear Strike thing. Yes I have used a lot of times and my opponents used it a lot of times against me. Problem is that it can easily destroy a War Factory and even a Construction Yard sometimes which is a too big tactical advantage for the Nod, it is 5000 minus to a player, which cannot be done with an ion cannon. What about using Nod another's missile and modding it instead? Or making the War Factory and Construction Yard stronger. It is an option as well to make it one time useable only (if possible) with a lot more damage and radius.
I've just tested it a couple dozen of times on myself and also the AI of both normal and easy difficulty and found that the Construction Yard and the Refinery would always survive, provided the building starts getting repaired the moment it gets hit by the nuke. The War Factory indeed never survives, but then again it can barely survive anything at all (even TD's weak Ion Cannon always takes it out in 1 hit). I don't like this either, but that's how it was in TD and how it will remain in the classic version. I of course beefed up the armor of GDI's War Factory in the enhnaced mode a long time ago already
I hope so that adding RA1 units doesn't ruin the balance, in fact this is only up to you. Anyway it's ruining the original TD feeling. But we'll see.
Only very few units of RA1 have been added and as few as they are, I can't imagine how they'd possibly ruin the TD feeling. I gave Nod a modified version of TD's destroyer (I gave it Nod's gun turret instead of the missile launcher it has in RA1) and the phase tank, while GDI only gets the medic from RA1. In survivor mode however, Nod also gets the heavy tank, while GDI gets the V2 rocket launcher.
The lack of air strikes and paratroopers is just bad, but unfortunately there is nothing to do with the game limitations. Just is you would have an experienced programmer who can edit the program language.
CCHyper already managed to do a bunch of hacks for me (most notably the 32 facings), but even he can't do everything. He did give a shot at getting air strikes and paratroopers to work, but had no luck. The same thing goes for air transport.
Making the mine layers with recovering HP isn't a real problem if you make them extremely weak. So after a tank bullet they blow up and you can still use it
Yes, but what bothers me is that it'd be noticeable by the player that the mine layer actually deploys into the mine and then releases another mine layer as a free unit (just like the refinery releases the harvester). Aside from that the mines would also only work with proximity (meaning they go off when a unit comes near it, rather than when a unit actually drives over it).
I think the parabombs should be put in-game for a test and we can check how players find it useful.
With realistic I meant in real life, although this also implies for the game itself. RA's kind of parachuted bombs have no benefit over normally dropped bombs whatsoever. I really also doubt I'd actually manage to implement it and even if I could, it'd take more effort than it's worth.
By the way, you actually posted this topic in the wrong forum, so I hope you wont get upset if I move it
Anyhow, thanks for your input
Sun, 2009-12-06 18:04
#4
Well, it looks that you have a point in some things. Very disappointing that even the bit more moderner Tiberian Sun engine can't handle much better the possible options of a TD/RA mod benefits than the Red Alert 1. I still hope that you will find some ways to solve a few limitations. Anyway. Keep up the good work
Tue, 2009-12-08 23:49
#5
I'm not sure if you've actually used the Nuke, but it's far weaker than the actual nuclear strike you see in TD since I'm using a chemical warhead. I've tried using a that sort of simulates the one the nuke in TD has (since warheads can't have a radius that surrounds more than 1 cell in TS), but that turned out to be very flawed (it would either be too powerful, or it would be too random; sometimes doing a lot of damage and sometimes no damage at all), so I ended up using a warhead similar to the one of the chemical missile from TS (although a bit more powerful). With some units doing a little extra damage, it can destroy a Temple of Nod or a Construction Yard, but on it's own (provided the player/AI starts repairing his/her/its building as soon as it gets hit) it shouldn't be able to destroy a tough building like that (so it's basically just as effective as the Ion Cannon from TS).
Eh, quick note there... the C&C1 nuke isn't powerful at all in multiplay. In single play it does 1000 damage (on impact point). In multiplay only 300. Compare with the Ion Cannon, which does 600 damage to its target.
Wed, 2009-12-09 07:21
#6
Yeah, I remember that... I suppose depending on the target, the nuke in DTA can do some more damage than C&C1's version, but I suppose you could say that makes up for its smaller radius. And since C&C1's multiplayer nuke does 300 HP damage per cell (which adds up to 900), it'd destroy GDI's war factory anyhow (since the war factory has only 400 HP), so it isn't really that different.
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This isn't possible and even in TD Nod didn't have 2 different remap colors in multiplayer (only in singleplayer).
I do agree, but unfortunately the Chinook won't be able to drop off the infantry at all without having this ability.
That is a good point... I'll try to fix that, but I'm not sure whether the missiles will then still be properly able to hit aircraft at all. If not, I'll try giving them some extra speed, but if that doesn't help I'll be forced to keep them as they are.
It's not possible unless I make all wall pieces buildable separately and give them all a foundation of 1x2, 2x1 or 2x2. So this isn't really an option.
I'm not sure if you've actually used the Nuke, but it's far weaker than the actual nuclear strike you see in TD since I'm using a chemical warhead. I've tried using a that sort of simulates the one the nuke in TD has (since warheads can't have a radius that surrounds more than 1 cell in TS), but that turned out to be very flawed (it would either be too powerful, or it would be too random; sometimes doing a lot of damage and sometimes no damage at all), so I ended up using a warhead similar to the one of the chemical missile from TS (although a bit more powerful). With some units doing a little extra damage, it can destroy a Temple of Nod or a Construction Yard, but on it's own (provided the player/AI starts repairing his/her/its building as soon as it gets hit) it shouldn't be able to destroy a tough building like that (so it's basically just as effective as the Ion Cannon from TS).
If you read the About page, I already mentioned that I've considered it, but I currently have my hands too full with other the features of DTA. Aside from that there's also things from RA that can't be implemented because of some of TS's engine's limitations. And like I also said on that page, there is a slight chance I'll end up adding RA factions later on anyway, but it won't be soon if I do. Also, I always take balance into account when adding new units, so trust me when I say the few RA units I did add do not ruin the balance.
GDI:
- Give them airfield along with the a-10 bomber (if I remember back good)
- Give them naval yard with the GDI gunboat (should shoot to air as well), hovercraft and cruiser
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable paratroopers and air strikes
- Give them the mine layer
- give them the medic
- As you can see in some of the screenshots on the Media page, the A10+airfield has already been added in the enhanced mode. The same goes for the gunboat.
- Paratroopers aren't possible with the TS engine, nor are controllable air strikes.
- Mine layers also won't work with the TS engine (there is a work-around, but that would cause the mine layer to recover full health every time it lays a mine.
- The medic has already been implemented in the enhanced mode.
- Give them the ability after building tech center to make repeatable parabombs
- Give them radar jammer with a wide range
- Give them the Chemical Warrior with a greater price and damage to infantry than the flamethrower
- Give them the thief
- I've considered adding parabombs, although it'd have been a hard to properly implement it, if it'd even be possible at all. However, I changed my mind because I realized parachuted bombs actually have no realistic benefit over bombs that are dropped normally (unless it's a nuke and you want to buy some time to get distance before it goes off).
- Radar jammers aren't possible with the TS engine.
- Chem Warriors already exist (even in the classic mode).
- Thieves can't work in the TS engine either. There seems to be some leftovers from its code, but it's broken (it can't actually steal money).