The MIG is already in; it becomes available once you own both a GDI tech center and a Nod research facility.

The Chinook can also carry vehicles, just like the Carryall. This actually wasn't by choice (although I'd likely would have made this choice for the enhanced mode if I did have a choice) considering there's no other way to make an aircraft able to transport infantry "properly", which means that the Chinook can even carry vehicles in classic mode.

Take balance in mind; Nod has no need for this because they'd get an advantage over GDI.

The juggernaut in TS Firestorm actually made GDI overpowered, but that's besides the point. GDI already has the Rocket Launcher which can out-range Obelisks, so there's no need to make the V2 buildable. I did once include the medics for GDI, but for some reason they just won't function properly in DTA (they just keep healing the same infantry over and over again, even when they've already restored its full health), so I won't be able to include them because of that (and I already tried everything I could think of to solve the problem).

If you mean the normal commando which is also buildable in classic mode, it's already buildable for GDI (and Nod already has the Cyborg Prototype instead).

The Carryall can also carry infantry, so there's no need to give GDI the Chinook back. The only difference between the Chinook and Carryall are their speeds, although even that is so small it's barely significant. So simply put; they're the same unit with a different image.

Neither of those are currently possible with the TS engine.

That's impossible considering Engineers can't walk on water.

Seems you're right; I'll fix that

Hmm, I know that workarounds aren't best way to solve problems, but sometimes these are necessary.
About impossibility of GPS in TS engine, what if it produced not selectable unit with map wide vision radius, and after, let's say, 5 seconds it goes boom and we have whole map for us?
Reinforcements can arrive from under the ground, so what about some animation switching to get paratroopers? I know this won't solve problem with TS engine not being able to use non-voxel aircrafts though.

The limit of a unit's sight range is 10; any higher and it'll just revert back to 10.
With the Drop Pods every single infantry that arrives has its own Drop Pod animation, meaning that you'd see 1 paratrooper planes per infantry that would get dropped off if I'd replace the animation, which would look pretty ridiculous.

okay for the paratroopers okay then just do the drop pod power up for GDI once the comm center has the uplink


the juggernaut made GDI overpowered! really?! how?

no when I am asking for sp commando I am talking about the pest with the railgun found on training holiday, it would give GDI something like the ghost stalker

as for the mig, I mean allowing NOD to build them standard without the capture of a command center

no medic, hmm healing supply depo? buildable hospital that can heal infantry in proximity?

a special tech center that gives you the special naval units?

one question unanswered can you make it that when GDI captures a research lab they get something different then when NOD captures a GDI tech center


a tiberium bomb Yak for NOD?

Naval Transport for both, to get units across water w/o caryall/chinook

would spy plane for GDI be overpowered?

You have to consider things like game balance and added value when you're suggesting things. Units won't be added just for the sake of adding them.


Pretty much everything else GDI had in TS was already better than the Nod counterpart (Disc Throwers > Cyborgs / Rocket Infantry, Titans > Tick Tanks, Orca Bombers > Banshees, etc.) and the Juggernaut also gave GDI a better artillery unit than the Nod artillery was.


Would just make naval units even more rare since it'd cost more to tech up to the high-tech naval units (naval units are currently fairly seldom used in player-vs-player games).


Yes, and unneeded too.


Not sure how possible this would be. Anyway, infantry have very low hitpoints in DTA and as such any kinds of medics would be pretty much useless (cluttering up the sidebar). Infantry rarely have only a part of their health left, they usually just die entirely in combat.


Yes, that's possible.


While I do think Nod should have some useful aircraft in Enhanced mode (the Apaches are rather useless), MiGs would make Nod overpowered. Currently only GDI has very strong aircraft (A10s), and lategame is fairly well balanced. Same for the "Tiberium Bomb Yak".

So there is no simple way to hack around this limitation?


What if there is 1 airplane that drops 1 unit, and 4 invisible ones that drop rest? Since they appear near each other it wouldn't look weird, and first airplane was, as I recall from Red Alert, quite big and slow.
Though my guess is that each unit must have same animation. It means it is impossible for now.

@yourpetcat
By the way, like Rampastring said, adding units just to add them is not a good idea. Keep in mind that game must be somehow balanced. NOD is not as powerful as GDI, and it is meant not to be.
2-3 Stealth tanks can kill a mammoth tank, medium tank, but they shine most while r@ping lone harvesters and disappearing.
Flame tanks are for infantry, lightly armored stuff and structures.
2 Light tanks are stronger than 1 medium tank, 3 LTs > 1 Mammoth tank.
Artillery can help killing other tanks that are held by light tanks, killing off pesky infantry, and of course leveling down buildings.
Recon bikes / nod buggies / infantry own GDI MRLS.
Orca r@pes your units? Get s.tanks, recon bikes or bazooka infantry.

Tl;Dr: GDI has strong units, NOD has fast and light ones that work well in mixed teams.

It's doable, although as you mentioned, it's not really useful enough to make it into a buildable structure. I could possibly make civilian hospitals in Enhanced mode heal all infantry that stand near it though...

There isn't, indeed.

Indeed, you already answered your own question.

would a standard yak be acceptable for NOD?

Or a yak that drops a single weak bomb?

how about a limited number of MIGS for NOD or making them not as strong


ideas for tech center capture

when NOD gets a tech center

1. tesla tank or v2: this gives NOD a an long range unit that is actually effective against enemy vehicles but not limited to one like enhanced SSM

NOD also gets: heavy tank: NOD can survive w/o one, but this gets them something that go toe to toe with med tanks and win

alternative suggestion: demo truck

When GDI captures research lab GDI gets:

phase tank

and v2 or tesla tank

how would spy plane be overpowered for GDI considering how late you would get it? stealth units would not necessarily be revealed

water crates that can give you ubuildable naval units

OR
Give NOD the ability to build hovercraft in limited quantities and GDI the ability to build heavy gunboats in limited quantities

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

1. GDI getting sp commnado or whatever the commando that has the railgun found near the bridges in training holiday
you would only get one alive at any point
2. Giving GDI drop pods powerup upon ion cannon uplink

If you ever will try to mess wit Red Alert stuff, there will be a need for plenty of workarounds. Like problems with medic (can't copy TS one? or make it create close healing buff area like the one in crate?) or soviet attack dogs (no idea here) and iron curtain buff.
I guess RA 'low-tech' would be possible to some degree right now.

One question though - is it possible to add more playable factions than GDI and NOD?

Yes, but it requires some workarounds that require removing the "Bases" and "Short Game" options aswell as starting units except for the MCV. I don't personally mind Bases or starting units, but Short Game is something I wouldn't want to lose. About RA, we'll wait and see if CCHyper manages to add some of RA's logics to TS.

Nod has no need for these. Once again, take game balance into consideration and adding units just for the sake of adding new units is pointless since it'll only clutter up the sidebar with redundant units.

Nod already does get the Tesla tank after capturing a GDI tech center. Nod also already has the normal artillery, which is already effective enough against vehicles when used in combination with shorter range units, such as the light tank.

Nod has no need for either of these and the demo truck is overpowered when used in combination with the Chinook/Carryall.

GDI also already gets the Tesla Tank after capturing a Nod Tech Center, but the Phase Tank could be considered.

Maybe so, but GDI simply has no need for it. GDI already has a big enough advantage when it comes to scouting with the Jump Jet infantry as it is.

Crates can't appear on water in TS.

The Hovercraft would be redundant considering it's almost always more practical to just use a Chinook instead. There's also simply no need for the heavy gunboat.

I'm not adding railgun infantry because that technology is too advanced for DTA's era (which is somewhere in between TD and TS). The railgun infantry on Train-ing Holiday are nothing but easter-eggs that shouldn't be taken seriously.
The Drop Pod superweapon can only exist once and it's currently already used to give Nod either the seed visceroids SW or the subterranean reinforcements SW.
That aside, I'm not going to add actual drop pods anyhow, considering they couldn't possibly exist during DTA's era. In TS the Drop Pods were launched from the Philadelphia (GDI's HQ in space), which doesn't exist yet in DTA's era.

ONE PROBLEM, the X/0 powersuit uses a railgun, so how can railgun not be contemporary with DTA's era?
Also you are forgetting renegade with had NOD general reveshaw who had a railgun, which either happened before or during this time
the GDI player character in your campaign has a railgun what about him? does he not exist?


again for NOD what about a MIG that is limited in number that can be prodcued

The XO's railgun is experimental and it's a lot easier to create a railgun weapon that's carried by a vehicle (or mech, in this case) than to create one that's small and light enough to be carried by a human being.
And concerning Renegade; for as far as I'm concerned it indeed never happened. The campaign was filled with too much silliness for me to be able to take it seriously.

Again, why? GDI and Nod are currently balanced in such a way that both factions have their own advantages and neither faction is actually superior. Giving Nod the MIG would in fact give it a great advantage over GDI, so I won't do that.

then there are three problems


if migs are overpowered why let them be built under any circumstances, IE after tech center capture

if demo trucks are over powered why let the player build them under any circumstance, there is a map that has two tech centers that allow demo truck production (this map has it all, a civilian flotilla, ion storms, veinhole, some dinos, capturable refineries, etc)

your argument for renegade is weak, as renegade is official cannon, convenience is a sorry argument, I want MIGs unlimited, because it would be convenient for me to have them

YOUR CLASSIC CAMPAIGN THE PLAYER HAS AN AVATAR WITH AN EXPERIMENTAL RAILGUN (the green guy that must not die)

Because this is an incredibly rare occurence. If you actually let your enemy get their hands on one of your tech centres or CYs, frankly you deserve to lose.


That is a special map. It doesn't have to use conventional balance. I will admit that this is a valid point, though.


Realize that there is no "official" canon for C&C. In the communities, there is WestWood canon (RA2 and RA3 never happened; RA is a prequel to TD, C&C4 never happened*) and EA canon (RA is a separate universe). Renegade is on the fine line between the two, and as such can be ignored.


The "classic" campaign doesn't take place during the first war just because it's in classic mode; in fact, it uses a lot of assets from enhanced mode and is intended to take place in between the first war and DTA's enhanced mode. Besides, IS IT EVER EXPLICITLY STATED THAT IT'S A RAILGUN? No, I didn't think so.

*debatable; some don't mind it, others want it to just go away (including EA, ironically)

Valid point indeed, but that was the mapper's idea and that aside, since it's such a huge map, it's not as overpowered.

That campaign's story is merely a spin-off of the CnC Canon and thus doesn't need to fit within the C&C story. It also features a lot of other weapons that never make an appearance in the mod other than in that campaign itself.

As for Renegade, although parts of its story might be true, from what I can tell a lot of the weapons and people you see in its story merely exist for the sake of creating the campaign.
When you play through TS' missions you'll notice that there's not a single reference to or mention of any of the events that occurred in Renegade; most notably when you first hear of the Scrinship. Considering Havoc encountered a UFO during one of Renegade's missions, Solomon should've definitely known about it, yet the the one in TS seems to be the first and only alien ship he's ever heard of. That doesn't necessarily mean the UFO you saw in Renegade never really existed in TD (it both might and might not have), but it does point out that Renegade is only loosely connected to the CnC Canon and many of the weapons and people (especially the mutants, considering there were no mutants yet during TD) you encountered indeed likely never really existed.
Also, the UFO is just the most obvious example I could think of; none of the other events events that only happened in Renegade (and not in TD) were ever made a mention of in TS either.

as for the commanders weapon it sounds and works like a railgun, I doubt it can be much else, regardless GDI can't of built only one for one guy (the avatar as I like to call him)

renegade being ambiguously cannon means that railguns could of existed at the time

what if say on my custom map jurassic Park 3.0 there is an advanced command center that one could capture thus giving you a MIG, (it is posted under maps)

what if it is a 8 man ffa and one gets captured thus allowing the production of MIGS.
What if only one were allowed to be built, surely one can't hurt all that much. right?

I disagree, considering the events of Renegade occurred before the end of the first tiberium war (TD) and you didn't ever see a single railgun in any of TD's missions or videos. Considering how powerful that weapon is, there's no way you wouldn't have come across it or heard of it during any of TD's missions/videos.

Feel free to add whatever custom code you like to your map; it's your own map after all. Anything I say about your map is only advice to help you make something that more people than just yourself will like, but there's no rule against doing whatever you want with it.

MIGs on their own aren't overpowered; it's just that giving them to Nod will ruin the balance between the sides.

I'm pretty sure that the UFO was actually only included as a homage to the TD "UFO"... which turned out to be an ORCA.

I think you're confused with the UFO in the N64 version of TD; the UFO there is indeed just an ORCA canopy in TD. Westwood didn't make the N64 version of TD and this version was entirely remade in "3D" graphics.
The makers just didn't know what the ORCA canopy they saw on some TD maps was; they thought it must've been a UFO and thus made it look as such.

Renegade on the other hand, was indeed made by Westwood, so they knew perfectly well that the ORCA canopy in TD wasn't a UFO...

then why not a special commando with the weapon the player avatar has in the campaign buildable? just one though

also what about limited number of migs say four?

Neither faction has need for such a commando with a mystery future weapon and regardless of a build limit, MIGs would still disturb the balance between GDI and Nod.

then why allow them at all, it is a pointless unit, nod has a hijacker, balance the unit out with what would essentially the ghost stalker

Because we can. GDI also gets a special unit for capturing one of Nod's tech centres which restores the balance.

No. If we did that, nod would effectively have two of the same unit. Or, if you mean for that new infantry to be the special unit, BOTH sides would be able to acquire what is basically two of the same unit.

only GDI would get this unit

My point is still valid.

A railgun commando basically takes the mobility of the commando/cyborg and the weapon of the X-O powersuit.

And the extremely destructive C4 which can level your entire base in seconds if you don't watch your enemy closely all the time.

About the Classic mode campaign, when I designed and created it I never meant it to be a very serious campaign or a part of the extremely fragmented C&C Canon (which is so fragmented that it doesn't really mean anything to me anymore). I thought it would've been obvious not only from the silly infantry railgun and the strange plot, but also from Nod's visceroid attacks (no explanation on how they're controlling the viscs) and massive 2-pixel wide chemical missiles that can wipe out half of your base with one strike. So, I don't really like using the campaign for saying what should go and what shouldn't go into the entire game.

About demo trucks and other things on some maps, we have a very open organizational system where anyone can pretty much do anything they want with their assets. Sure, the assets (including maps) have to be appreciated by others for them to be included in DTA, but all kinds of little secrets on maps are only there because the creators of the maps have added them there for fun; the rest of the staff has usually nothing to do with them (usually they don't even know about the secrets). I'm pretty sure that the author of the map with demo trucks doesn't like the map being used as part of general game design either, and that the person wouldn't like buildable demo trucks on all maps despite them being included as an easter egg on one of his maps (or at least for the reason of them being included in his map).

Overally DTA has a pretty serious feel into it though (like TD), and one which should be kept. Bittah and Chronoseth have taken on the points otherwise, leaving me nothing else to say.

Not sure what exactly this is about, but an "Arcology" is a completely self-sustaining habitat/living space structure, while archaeology is the study of human history, and not in any way a building.

If this is about the thing called "ARCO" in C&C1, though, that was supposed to be a fictional oil company name. The 'building' is actually a parked oil tanker truck.

So the full thing of the name should be just "Arco" then?

It's called "Arcology" under the description in XCC Mixer however, so I assume that's the correct name (unless Olaf gave it the wrong name in the global mix database somehow).

So I had a though reading through post involving new units/factions and the limitations and inconveniences involved in getting those to work. Would it be possible to introduce alternate tech trees? As in, you get to choose between two tech centers and each one gives you different units, and once youve built one you cant build the other. This would take care of the issue of sidebar cluttering as well as new units being redundant because there are already other units that fullfill their function. Of course balancing would be pretty tricky because you pretty much have 4 factions now instead of two but I think it would be possible.

Also seeing as people are generally split on whether or not infantry crush is a good feature, maybe it could be added as an option like crates are? Curious to see what you guys think.

Although those aren't bad suggestions, neither of them are actually possible with the TS engine. Negative prerequisites (which is what's required to make a certain structure unbuildable after another has been built) aren't supported and it's not possible to add new multiplayer options.

Maybe some time in the future Hyper Patch will make this possible, but until then there's nothing I can do.

Truth be told however, I don't think that adding an alternative tech tree which gives access to different technology which functions almost exactly the same as the technology which the original tech tree provided (such as tanks which look differently, but still use very similar weapons) is really worth the effort however. The only way it would be worth the effort is if this alternative tech tree would come with several drastic changes to the way a faction functions...

Thats pretty much what I meant, of course the less advanced units would be the same but the vision i have goes along the lines of both tech trees fulfilling the same role in a more general sense but with different units. Perhaps the alternate nod tree wouldnt get the microwave tank but instead theyd get some kind of laser aircraft unit effective against vehicles, that sort of thing. Of course if this was possible it would involve a lot of work, balancing each tech tree against each other and whatnot but on the other hand it would open up a wide range of possibilities and give the game another layer of depth, and aside from that its also a way of having more units which is always fun.

As far as the problem with how to actually implement this, do you think there could be a way to have the effect without a negative prerequisite? Maybe theres something you can do that makes it so that once you have once tech center built, making another wont add any new units? I dont really know how the TS engine works so im just throwing things out haha. And this is all theoretical, i realize that this sort of thing might not really fit in with the goals that you guys have in mind for the game but it is an interesting idea to entertain

The only alternative method to get something like this done would be by using upgrades as prerequisites, but this comes with its own problems. An upgrade will only properly work as a prerequisite when the unit or building that requires it as its prerequisite will be buildable immediately after the upgrade is built (so if you still have to build another structure before then, it won't work).
Another problem is that even if you give the building on which these upgrades can be placed a build limit of 1 and give it only 1 upgrade slot, nothing will prevent the player from just selling this building (or if it's unsellable, destroying it instead), then building it again and building the other upgrade in order to get access to the tech of the other sub-faction as well (technology isn't removed from the tech tree when the prerequisite is destroyed after all and there's no way to solve this). The only way to get this to work properly would be by making the Construction Yard itself the building on which the upgrades can be placed, but this could only work if the Redeployable-MCV multiplayer option is always disabled and in my opinion this would be too big a sacrifice.

Ah thats a shame then, so pretty much the only hope for it to be possible is either some clever workaround or the Hyper Patch doing something about it.